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Deployed Units and Grand Tactical Outflanking


Iorwerth
(@iorwerth)
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I am new to the game and just learning it, so sorry if my two questions have obvious answers and I have just missed them!

In example 6.6.4, in picture 4, it shows the Austrians have broken through and their infantry base edge is now behind the second wave of French infantry, so the French are now Grand Tactically Outflanked, according to what is written. From this I am presuming that the two French infantry units pushed back into the area between the rear of the beginning two French lines/waves and reformation area do not count as a new ‘third wave’ of the French deployed formation. Reason for this presumption is that if they did, then the Austrian unit would not be beyond the back of the rear wave, as those two units would have just created a new 'third' wave. Hope that made sense!

So In have two questions:

 

  1. On a following turn, would those two French units who were forced back then be considered a new 'rear' wave and so remove the tactical outflanking? If not, then what would the formation have to do to make them a rear wave? Would they need to drop an additional unit(s) back? How many units are required to classify as a wave? Can a single unit be a wave?

 

  1. If a formation is fully deployed, then there is no need to keep within 225 yards of other units in the formation (as per rule 4.3.2). So could a formation deploy in multiple waves, and then have the final wave being a large distance behind the first two? That would mean to be grand tactically outflanked an opponent would need to get a unit between that final unit, who is lying far behind the other waves, and the reformation area, which may be hard to accomplish. The downside for doing this would be that you are losing the unit you are stashing back there. I am not saying this is a good tactic, just trying to understand if it were possible.

 


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Lead-Penguin
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Hello! Thanks for the question.

There is a practical error in Example 6.6.4 in that the battalions that retire would count as the rearmost wave of the Formation and thus prevent the Austrians from being Grand Tactically Outflanked via a Breakthrough. Those two battalions should have been shown having a rout result.

With that clarified… Onward to your questions!

Posted by: @iorwerth

1. On a following turn, would those two French units who were forced back then be considered a new 'rear' wave and so remove the tactical outflanking? If not, then what would the formation have to do to make them a rear wave? Would they need to drop an additional unit(s) back? How many units are required to classify as a wave? Can a single unit be a wave?

This is partially addressed by the correction/clarification above, but to address it explicitly: Any number of Units greater than zero constitute a wave, and that does include a Unit which lost a Combat Resolution in the current turn and retired. A rout result moves a Unit to the Reformation Area, and Units in the Reformation Area do not count as deployed, committed, or as a wave.

Posted by: @iorwerth

2. If a formation is fully deployed, then there is no need to keep within 225 yards of other units in the formation (as per rule 4.3.2). So could a formation deploy in multiple waves, and then have the final wave being a large distance behind the first two? That would mean to be grand tactically outflanked an opponent would need to get a unit between that final unit, who is lying far behind the other waves, and the reformation area, which may be hard to accomplish. The downside for doing this would be that you are losing the unit you are stashing back there. I am not saying this is a good tactic, just trying to understand if it were possible.

Yes, there are some practical restrictions based on the active order directive the Formation is under, but for instance, if a Formation is on Defend [D], sure it could array itself that way. You are correct that a player could do that and that it would make being Grand Tactically Outflanked far more difficult. Also, as you say, there are downsides because those Units in the rearmost wave are likely out-of-position to contribute to anything like skirmishing – they'd also likely be out-of-position to be considered supporting during Combat Resolution.

Hope that helps!


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Iorwerth
(@iorwerth)
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That is great! Thank you.

Is there a list of errata on things like this that were incorrect in the 6th printing? The errata in the downloads seems to be the same as I have in my rulebook, and neither of them mention a fault with the example on 6.6.4


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Lead-Penguin
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Posted by: @iorwerth

Is there a list of errata on things like this that were incorrect in the 6th printing? The errata in the downloads seems to be the same as I have in my rulebook, and neither of them mention a fault with the example on 6.6.4

Correct, the most up-to-date errata is the one included in the 6th printing, we haven't done an errata since, this example may not be the only item, but there are very few.


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Iorwerth
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Ok, no problem - I think the rules are very well written and oganised and I have enjoyed getting my head around them.

 

That big question I had was to do with the outflanking example, which you sorted for me. Thank you for the quick replies, much appreciated!


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Iorwerth
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I had a follow up question about the placement of reformation area and what counts as the center of the formation. Rule 4.3.2 says when deployed it should be 900 yards to rear of the formation center - is this from the rear wave center of the deployed formation, rather than from the front wave, or is the 900 yards measured from some imaginary center point between waves in the center?

In my example in the posts above, of having a unit or two in a wave deep behind the other waves, would the reformation area be to the rear of this back-up wave if this wave was considered along the center line of the formation? What if this wave was off to one side of the formation i.e. not really classifiable as being center deployed?

The above really boils down to how to you define the center of the formation and whether it is measured form the rearmost wave or from imagined center point between multiple waves in the center.

My guess would be that the reformation area would be measured form the rearmost wave in the center of the formation (however defined), and that if a wave had units off to one side or another (i.e. not really considered part of the center of the formation), then the reformation area would not need to be 900 yards to their rear i.e. a formation could even have units that have deployed to either side of the reformation area if they want to (not saying they would, just that is how I am reading it).

I presume when defining what counts as the center of the formation you are really looking to see where the majority of units in the formation are congregated. That is what I presume at the moment. If you have two wings, then I also presume the center point would be determined somewhere between these wings,  and the reformation area would be 900 yards back from center point (could get a bit odd if the two wings were some considerable distance apart!)?

I may be overthinking all this! In reality I would probably just wing it when it comes to placing the reformation area and just put it 900 yards back from what seems the most central point of the formation, given the tactical situation the formation is in. However, i thought it worth trying to find out if there are some further guidelines I should be aware of that would help in placing it when the situation is more complex.

 


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Lead-Penguin
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Posted by: @iorwerth

is this from the rear wave center of the deployed formation, rather than from the front wave, or is the 900 yards measured from some imaginary center point between waves in the center?

The intention is the Reformation Area is to be laterally centered on the Formation, 900 yards behind the rearmost wave.

Posted by: @iorwerth

In my example in the posts above, of having a unit or two in a wave deep behind the other waves, would the reformation area be to the rear of this back-up wave if this wave was considered along the center line of the formation?

The Reformation Area would be to the center of the Formation as a whole. So if a Formation is somehow arrayed as two wings, it would be laterally placed at their midpoint.

Posted by: @iorwerth

If you have two wings, then I also presume the center point would be determined somewhere between these wings,  and the reformation area would be 900 yards back from center point (could get a bit odd if the two wings were some considerable distance apart!)?

Yes, and yes that could be odd, but it would also be odd to have a single Formation which had two large clumps of Units far spread apart. It can happen, and even intentionally be done, but it certainly is not common, nor very practical.

 


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Iorwerth
(@iorwerth)
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Great! Thanks for the replies 😀 


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