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Skirmishers in version 3


agathosdaimon
(@agathosdaimon)
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hi forgive me if i have missed this in the rules, but i cant find much info on skirmishers other than the part in teh threat determiniation stuff in the combat - but i dont understand yet if skirmishers are actually visually/physically to be represented in the game or are they just abstracted elements in combat involving infantry?

in the threat assessment chart it describes that the must exceed 1/2 target cohesion to achieve an assessed result - so this makes me think they are a unit separate to the battalion that one determines results for yes? 

also what size are the skirmisher units, there would be a limit on how many a battalion might have to send forth yes?


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David
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Posted by: @agathosdaimon

i dont understand yet if skirmishers are actually visually/physically to be represented in the game or are they just abstracted elements in combat involving infantry?

Infantry Threatens at range via skirmishing. Skirmishers are not represented on the tabletop.

Posted by: @agathosdaimon

in the threat assessment chart it describes that the must exceed 1/2 target cohesion to achieve an assessed result - so this makes me think they are a unit separate to the battalion that one determines results for yes? 

No, it is just referring to Threat from skirmishing, i.e. ranged Threat from Infantry Units.

-David


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agathosdaimon
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thanks - that makes things a bit easier then when it comes to trying to work how to represent my 6mm armies - by the sounds of it it would make no difference if i have skirmishers on the same base as an inf battalion or not , or i could have them separate and really just as a visual element on the battlefield

not all infantry forces did have skirmishers though did they? i dont know this for sure, i just recall playing some John tILLER Napoleonic PC games and recalling some infantry units being unable to send out skirmishers


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David
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Posted by: @agathosdaimon

not all infantry forces did have skirmishers though did they? i dont know this for sure, i just recall playing some John tILLER Napoleonic PC games and recalling some infantry units being unable to send out skirmishers

Effectively all Infantry Units of the period would detach some number of men as skirmishers – though with some it was *very* few. And, effectiveness varied radically – but that is represented by variable Threat Values.

-David


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rtaylor
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Do only the front line battalions generate threat from skirmishers? To put it another way, do second/third/etc. line battalions project skirmishers too? If so, do you measure from the front of the second/third/etc. line bases? Thanks.


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David
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Posted by: @rtaylor

Do only the front line battalions generate threat from skirmishers? To put it another way, do second/third/etc. line battalions project skirmishers too? If so, do you measure from the front of the second/third/etc. line bases? Thanks.

In Series 3, yes, an "open lane" is required (see 8.2.Threat Zone).

This was not true in ESR 2nd Ed. where all waves would skirmish so long as they had a target within range and arc.

-David


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rtaylor
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Posted by: @david
Posted by: @rtaylor

Do only the front line battalions generate threat from skirmishers? To put it another way, do second/third/etc. line battalions project skirmishers too? If so, do you measure from the front of the second/third/etc. line bases? Thanks.

In Series 3, yes, an "open lane" is required (see 8.2.Threat Zone).

This was not true in ESR 2nd Ed. where all waves would skirmish so long as they had a target within range and arc.

Good to know. I had wondered if second-line battalions sent out skirmishers historically.

By the way, the way 3e resolves threat reminds me of the "Twilight" rules from the Pike & Shot Society (Twilight of the Sun King / Divine Right / Soldier Kings). It's an elegant approach.


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David
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Posted by: @rtaylor

Good to know. I had wondered if second-line battalions sent out skirmishers historically.

It varied based on the circumstances. At Friedland the Russians committed troops from a bunch of Musketeer Battalions to support the Jägers that were embroiled with Lannes, so, it happened. But as far as game mechanics go, we had to rebalance things to get a desired outcome when moving to a Threat/Cohesion system.

Posted by: @rtaylor

By the way, the way 3e resolves threat reminds me of the "Twilight" rules from the Pike & Shot Society (Twilight of the Sun King / Divine Right / Soldier Kings). It's an elegant approach.

I know the name but I've never read or played it. Threat/Cohesion systems have been done several times, I wouldn't claim that ESR Series 3 includes anything entirely new, though much is either uncommon, combined in a unique way, or an existing concept implemented in a new way.

-David


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